Talk:Uncle Tom's Cabin

I'm not comfortable with the tone of this article. I've never read the book, so I can't speak to accuracy, but due to the book's strong message, I don't think it's particularly good form to accuse that particular character of being a Canon Sue. Frankly, I'm not even sure we need an article about this at all, but if it's going to be here, let's keep it neutral. ~Neshomeh 18:10, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

She's definitely a canon sue, but she's not a major character. She's restricted to one part of the book, maybe about a fifth of the entire text; and while she dominates and influences everyone during the time she's "on stage", she doesn't take over the entire book. Characters like this were also fairly popular during the 1800s; so Eva is by no means an exception to the rule--it's more like she's a representation of a larger trend that included creating Canon Sues such as Beth from Little Women and Cedric of Little Lord Fauntleroy--morally perfect young people who were described as spiritual and angelic, and more often than not ended up dying before the end of the story. I thought it was significant mostly because Eva is a good example of a historical Sue; there are quite a few others I can think of, in otherwise very good works. Apparently it takes an extremely good author to successfully neutralize a Mary Sue and still create a good story.--Chaoticidealism 18:19, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Do you think it would help the "political" aspect if there were more such examples? It'd make it more obvious that the point is, "Mary Sue is older than we think," rather than, "Stowe was a bad writer." After all, it's kind of impossible to call Dickens a bad writer; but he's guilty of it too. Most of the examples we have are from very good writers, in fact, because the bad examples simply haven't survived this long.--Chaoticidealism 18:28, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, definitely. Right now it just looks like you're coming down on the book--I know you're not, but because it deals with such an important issue, you need to be very clear about it.

However, now that you mention it, I don't know if those characters really qualify as Sues/Stus if they don't meet the major criteria of dominating the story and being the author's favorite. Those bits are the most important parts of the definition. If the characters in question, with all their other traits, are really just there to provide a contrast with everyone else, to be a moral example, that's different from being a Sue. ~Neshomeh 18:32, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Eva was an author favorite, actually; she's described favorably at every opportunity. But I am working on a pageful of older Mary Sue type characters, so this one won't stick out too badly.65.185.152.236 20:13, May 16, 2010 (UTC)