Talk:Mary Sue

The Mark Twain quote is cute and at some level to the point, but what is it doing at the top of the page? An encyclopedia article should start with clarifying the topic of the article. Things others have said about the topic should come somewhere below. Indemaat 12:14, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
 * Someone's been reading too many TvTropes. While it adds humor to some pages, on some articles I must admit it doesn't make sense. JulyFlame 13:58, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
 * Personally, I'm all in favour of quotes at the top of the page, just so long as they adhere to the article in discussion and are formatted better than that one was (generally means at least a couple of spaces between the quote and the start of the article, and the quote in italics). I'm undecided as to whether that one suited the article or not, but I was unaware this was a wholly serious wiki. Most of the Mary Sue page is serious, anyhow, it'd do it some good to lighten up a little. :) pigeonarmy 10:18, 10 March 2008 (NZT)
 * -thwaps- Don't be silly. We want this wiki to be lighthearted, but still tell people what is up and down and stuff. XD JulyFlame 16:35, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
 * Exactly. So what should a quote matter as long as it is properly formatted and corresponds with the article? pigeonarmy 12:56, 10 March 2008 (NZT)
 * It mostly would depend on the article, I'd have to say. Some of them do fairly well with the small quote up there, but I don't think the larger ones like this one especially need a quote. JulyFlame 18:58, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
 * Fair enough, I suppose. pigeonarmy 13:00, 10 March 2008 (NZT)
 * Say, Pigeon, have you any IM programs? Er, just reply to that on my usertalk. JulyFlame 19:03, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

I've been looking at this definition, and besides the fact that there are a couple of typos, I'm not sure we want to be using a Wikipedia paraphrase to define our arch-nemesis. The first sentence, in particular, is not specific enough. I'm suggesting a new definition, and would like to know what you think:

Mary Sue A pet character that the author loves too much to subject him or her to the rules and realities that govern the rest of a story. The more that the author damages or neglects other elements in order to exalt this "darling", the more of a Mary Sue that character is. Often emphasizing style over substance, attitude over empathy, and sex or romance above every other human relation, the Mary Sue character type is a cheap and obvious resort for a writer's wish-fulfillment.--Araeph 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)