User talk:Neshomeh

Welcome to my talk page! Feel free to use it to... well... talk to me. About stuff. And things. Yes.

Ahem. If you see a topic header you think your comment/question would fit in, please leave it there and not someplace else. Thanks!

If you're really bored or curious, you can check out old conversations in my Talk Archive.

General Comments
Nesh is my PPC Role Model. I want to be just like her when I grow up.

Keep writing missions, please. You're awesome.

AnnaBee 98.202.242.120

Been cracking up quite a lot lately over your stories! Thank you! Bausiren (talk) 22:03, March 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just gonna scooch these up into this new section here... and say thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying them. ^_^


 * ~Neshomeh 22:14, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

"What Friends Will Do"
I just read Ilraen and Supernumerary's adventure in the Young Wizards' continuum. Thank you, from the depths of my heart for killing that thing. AGlass 07:31, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It was my pleasure, and you're welcome. {= ) Neshomeh 06:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

"The Dark Side"
I would comment on the board, but I really don't want to have to find the right post again, and it might even have dropped off the first page (I had a lot of missions open, and don't quite know where they all came from). Anyway, the agents tell Voltarmi that "the corridors weren't designed with dragons in mind, and the bosses aren't likely to be very understanding of anything that looks like a walking flamethrower." I would like to point out that the DoI has an (admittedly old) dragon agent&mdash;Verra Rose. She presumably has a human form, like Voltarmi's gnome, but I doubt she would remain like that the entire time. Sorry!  Goldenrod 111  06:56, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. If you think we made a mistake, could you please explain how we could do it better? Otherwise, I'm just confused. There are plenty of reasons for Nume to have said that--general jerkassery being one; not knowing about Verra being another; knowing about Verra, knowing she had a humanoid form, and knowing also that the Flowers aren't fond of being faced with things that can produce fire being a logical alternative to the second. So... what? O.o ~Neshomeh 16:46, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Not a comment on dragons, but this is a comment on the mission, which I've finally got around to reading. Not much to say, really, other than that I found it hilarious, love Nume's pop culture quotes, and want to hug Ilraen for being so adorably clueless.Cassie5squared 06:17, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, thank you! I really appreciate your taking the time to comment. {= D Ilraen is doing his best, but although he's come a long way, he still has a way to go. He appreciates the sympathy. ~Neshomeh 17:31, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Beta-reading Requests
Hey, sorry to bother you out of nowhere, I know we don't really talk much any more, but I was wondering if you still do beta stuff? I've been dusting off some of the missions I was working on last time I vanished, particularly a rather head-bendy Star Wars/M*A*S*H crossover I was going to tackle with one of my planned agent pairs (it's why that one Jedi agent currently has no links), and I was wondering if you'd be interested in betaing some of the writing stuff? Especially with the crossover, I've never tackled one of those before and while I've got a bunch of ideas thanks to some recent brainstorming, I could use some help putting it all together. Again, hope this isn't a bother, just since I can't reach you any other way I thought I'd leave a message here. Hope all's well. :) Ekyl (talk) 07:55, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello! I have to say I'm confused by this insistence that you can't get ahold of me (you said something to that effect on another Talk page, I think). My e-mail address is listed with my contact information on my User page, if you'd rather not use this page or the Board. Any of those is perfectly acceptable to me, though, or I wouldn't have listed them as ways to get in touch. There's also AIM, but I don't know if you have that.


 * As to the actual question, I'm unsure whether you're asking me to beta or something more akin to co-writing. Do you have a finished piece you want me to look over (this is what I consider beta-reading), or do you have ideas you want me to help assemble into a finished piece? Would this simply entail answering questions and consulting about ideas, or are you thinking of something more involved?


 * ~Neshomeh 16:30, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * I must've forgotten it (that is amended, I apologise for the error!) and wasn't sure if you'd be okay with a random email out of the blue. I don't have AIM due to dead computer, but I can get it. I regrettably don't have anything finished yet, but wondered if you'd be interested in beta-reading when I do. Re: assembling ideas, it's not so much a co-write as I have some ideas but I'm a little unsure how to put it all together in a way that'd come out as a good mission, the fic itself is crazy but gives me surprisingly little to work with, so yeah, basically for that part of things it would be seeing if you were okay with answering questions/consulting to help put it together. Sorry to bother you about it, I just remembered the good job you'd done with DIC stuff in the past, heh.


 * (Though now that you mention it, I might have thought of something I might like to borrow some FicPsych stuff for... if you're okay with being e-mailed or AIM'd I'll talk more about that when I get around to the other stuff.) Ekyl (talk) 17:36, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, got it. I'm always up for answering questions, so fire away! E-mail is perfect. As for actual beta-reading, ask me when you have something, and I'll be able to give a definite answer based on my business at the time. I don't want to say yes now and have to back out later if my life gets hectic, y'know?


 * ~Neshomeh 17:59, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * I get you there, it was more of a "would you hypothetically be interested in this when I finally actually finish something" thing. :P Ekyl (talk) 18:06, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Editing Questions
Heyo! So, my image posting request was because I wanted to post that tektek image of me under my profile picture, but my phone can't do that. Help, plz? --SpecstacularSC

An Odd Page
I spotted a page, You, and I'm not sure if it's alright for me to change it..

KittyEden (talk) 12:21, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * That depends. What do you want to do to it?


 * ~Neshomeh 14:51, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't feel appropriate for the PPC.

KittyEden (talk) 10:48, July 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay. I'm not sure why you think that. Can you please explain your reasoning? Also, you didn't answer my question about what you want to do to change it. Since you're asking my advice, I kinda need you to answer my questions so I have all the information I need to help.


 * ~Neshomeh 12:27, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Well, first of all, it seems to be a stub. Second of all, it doesn't explain itself. And it just doesn't feel right. As for changing... I don't really know.

KittyEden (talk) 12:51, July 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's the thing: it's meant to be funny, and there are actually several pages like it floating around&mdash;for instance, good, bad, dumb, and stupid. These are basic, every-day words that don't really need to be defined or explained, but we do it anyway because it amuses us. Some pages do need to be more serious if they're conveying sensitive or complicated information, but that doesn't hold true for every single article here. We are, after all, a group of humorists. Humor for humor's sake is perfectly acceptable&mdash;nay, desirable&mdash;in the PPC.


 * Best leave it alone unless you have an idea for making it better (i.e., more funny).


 * ~Neshomeh 13:53, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Actually, I have an idea for a new page. It'll be called 'me'. ;-D

KittyEden (talk) 12:36, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

BBC Sherlock
Hello! I'm just wondering - is it okay for me to make a separate page for the BBC Sherlock canon considering how unwieldy it is to link to the ACD!Sherlock page for my agents who work in the BBC!verse...? Lily Winterwood (talk) 03:28, October 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi! Given the current size of the Sherlock Holmes page, I'd say that makes sense. Call it "Sherlock (BBC)", probably, or maybe "Sherlock (TV series)" like it is on Wikipedia? ~Neshomeh 03:41, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Agent Pages
I would prefer that you not make major changes to the content of my agent pages. I have the story logs set up in the way that's most convenient for me to keep track of things I write. Thank you! —Doctorlit (talk) 18:47, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * In that case, would you please follow the formatting standards on your own speed? It's more convenient for everyone if the same types of information appear in the same way across the board, which is part of what I'm trying to accomplish. Or, if the current setup is hard to follow for you, could you tell me what about it causes you difficulty? ~Neshomeh 19:02, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * A lot of agent pages basically have the same info and story links in both the "timeline" and "mission logs." To avoid repeating the same info twice on a single page, and to prevent the page from growing longer than it strictly needs to be, I'm only using the timeline for really major sweeping events in my agents' lives, and leaving individual written works in the story logs area. Because of this, I also want to keep the stories section in chronological order, rather than grouping missions with individual agents together and keeping interlude stuff separate.


 * I don't think this setup is so drastically different from the wiki standard that it would cause anyone confusion. —Doctorlit (talk) 19:36, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * What you've described is actually not different at all, which is why your objection confuses me. I haven't messed with the content of your timelines, and I haven't altered the order of information in the Missions sections, just how they're labeled. Calling it "Mission Logs (or Reports)" instead of "Story Logs" just makes it the same as everywhere else, and adding in a "Partnered with" header actually serves to decrease the repetition of information as soon as you get multiple missions, since you don't have to say "with [Partner's Name]" on every mission description. (Also, it comes in VERY handy when you get someone like Agent Tawaki, who had several different official partners over the course of his career.) I didn't separate any interludes from missions, either&mdash;in fact, on several pages, I've integrated them. We agree that chronological order is a good thing! ~Neshomeh


 * Well, using "partnered with" headers throws things out of whack if I, say, partnered Doc with Luxury and not Vania for one mission, then went back to the standard Doc-and-Vanias. (I wouldn't do this, because Doc would not survive emotionally.) The Doc-and-Lux would have to go down under a separate header, despite occuring chronologically between Doc-and-Vania #5 and Doc-and-Vania #6, for example.


 * I will concede on the "mission reports" point, but I think I'm going to leave my mission reports section without sub-headers . . . Rats, I can't make real dashes on this computer. --Doctorlit (talk) 05:21, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not so, in fact&mdash;not unless Doc was officially, move-into-the-same-RC partnered with Lux and then officially, move-all-your-stuff-again re-partnered with Vania (which would be pretty silly!). Also, even if that happened, it wouldn't go out of chronological order; you'd just have another new heading for "Re-partnered with Vania." I can't find a real example of this, though&mdash;I think I actually fixed Jay's page to get rid of "re-partnered" headers, since she wasn't officially given a new partner until Acacia left, never to return. Her one-mission stint with Agent Dead was just that.


 * Seriously, take a look at some of the other pages, like Tawaki's or Dafydd's or Trojie's. All of their Missions sections are in chronological order, even the ones with multiple headers. Trojie's page even includes aspects of a timeline in the missions listing. They also show that people go on missions with agents other than their official partner a LOT, and it doesn't warrant a change in header. Heck, Dafydd goes on almost as many missions without Selene as he does with her. Those missions just get a tag of "Dafydd with Agent [Y] ([Y's Department])" to denote that the regular partner (Selene in this example) isn't involved. If they are, the tag is just "with Agent [Y] ([Y's Department])."


 * Some of them do have "Other Appearances" sections. Those are for cameos and things outside the regular spin-off that can't be easily slotted in for one reason or another&mdash;someone else wrote them, or they don't fall in the official timeline, or even if they do it's so vague as to make accurate placement impossible.


 * There isn't really a standard for what to do with cameos and such, though. For myself, I put stuff like that in my Timelines and reserve Mission Reports for the main spin-off; sometimes the timeline is combined with Missions, like on Trojie's page; sometimes they just have to be put in Other Appearances because the original author isn't around to say where they really go, like on Jay and Acacia's pages. And then there are characters without a spin-off of their own, who get an Appearances section instead of Mission Reports, and that generally mashes everything together. But always in chronological order, or as near as a best guess can make it.


 * So... that's how all that works (at this time, anyway). Does it make more sense now? (Also, to make proper dashes with HTML, type &amp;mdash; &mdash;it's a handy bit of code.) ~Neshomeh 16:01, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Flower Pages
Why exactly have you been adding the "placeholder" links to an inaccessible Google Doc on several of the Flower pages? Couldn't you just wait until you'd finished setting up the new location for the RP logs, and then post the link to the new location? It seems like it would be less hassle for you and less confusing for the readers of the wiki that would want to go check a source for something (or in my case, see the only mention of the elusive Pipe-weed).

On an unrelated note, do you have any idea when or where the Cilantro was first mentioned? The Glossary editing instructions say that the Coriander and Cilantro should preferably be added to the Glossary at the same time, probably because of the "they might be the same person" bit on their wiki pages, and though I've found a mention of a Coriander, I can't find anywhere that mentions a Cilantro.

Outhra (talk) 12:23, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair question. I wouldn't normally add just any dead links, but in this case, my thinking was that adding them while I was thinking about it will help me find the pages again later, when I won't remember everything that needs updating individually and will be leaning on the Search bar pretty heavily. In the meantime, even if the links don't work, I figure they do serve the purpose of telling people where the information came from, so that the page itself is more trustworthy, and those Flowers were in pretty desperate need.


 * Sadly, I don't know where to look for the Cilantro. The trouble with the DRD and the RDR is that they exist purely as a living joke, so it's sort of miraculous that we even have a story about one of them (thank you, hS!). ... Well, I say "trouble"... there's nothing wrong with it if you're not trying to list and organize everything. ^_^;


 * I have considered a possible "solution," but I'm not sure if this would just cause more "trouble": what if they were both listed in the format of "Coriander - see Cilantro" and vice versa? Would that be in aid of the humor, or just too confusing, even with links to their pages to get folks out of the endless loop? (Speaking of which, both of their pages could totally be expanded. How many ways can you think of to say "The [Plant] is the head of the [Department]. It might be the same individual as the [other Plant]."? *g*)


 * ~Neshomeh 15:00, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Did you know there's actually two stories featuring the Coriander? Strange but true! She may be 'involved' with the Big Thorn. No word, of course, on whether she's separate to the Cilantro. I do intend to write a RDR story which does nothing to clear things up, though... Huinesoron (talk) 17:01, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ooh, you're right, I do remember "Greetings and Hello" (which I see you've now added to the page). Excellent. I'll look forward to and eagerly anticipate the RDR story. ^_^


 * ~Neshomeh 17:14, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

I was looking around a few of the pages on the Flowers, trying to see which ones needed editing or expansion and whatnot, and I found a brief reference to a Flower called the Self-Heal on the Medical Research Division page. A Self-Heal is a real plant, so I've got a species for its page template if the Flower exists, but I don't know where it's from, PPC-wise. It wasn't mentioned in any of the stories linked from the Medical Research Division page, and I wouldn't know where best to look otherwise. Have you ever seen it or heard anything about it before? It might have just been one of those Flowers mentioned exclusively in one of the RP logs that I can't get to, but the uncertainty is bugging me.

Outhra (talk) 01:27, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, I do know that one, actually. I think Elcalion created it at the same time as the Echinacea (my memory is that there was a discussion that went, "Hey, wouldn't a medical research division be cool?" "Why yes, but what Flower would lead it?" "What about an echinacea? They're medicinal; commonly used as an herbal immune system booster." "But wait, there's a plant that's actually called 'self-heal,' wouldn't that be funny?" "Well, those are both good ideas, so let's have both!") I know the Self-Heal is mentioned in the same Multiverse Monitor article the Echinacea first appears in, at least. There's not much to work with there, it's enough to put in the Glossary and give it a redirect page so it shows up in categories.


 * I think they both get a nod in the Invasion RP, too, but alas, technical difficulties. {= (


 * ~Neshomeh 01:58, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * There's nothing about it on either of the the MRD's original Multiverse Monitor articles, actually. I did find a mention of two Legal employees who aren't currently recorded in Issues Four and Nine, and I'll add them to Legal's page, but I can't find any mention of the Self-Heal in the MM issues. While the conversation on the Board means that it at least existed conceptually, I can't use that as a source for the Glossary, unfortunately.
 * Maybe once all of the RPs have been made available again, we can link if the Self-Heal ever shows up there.
 * Outhra (talk) 21:47, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Crud, you're right. I got it mixed up&mdash;it's actually in the Fifth Anniversary Celebration. Sorry about that.


 * ~Neshomeh 22:11, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, there it is. Just a brief allusion, but the Self-Heal is in the Fifth Anniversary write-up. Judging by context, it looks as though it appears in one of the Macrovirus Epidemic sections, too. As the person with access to the RP files, could you check to see if it's there? If it is, I might be able to make a page for it and not just a redirect, since I won't be able to make a full article out of a passing mention.
 * Outhra (talk) 23:13, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Outhra is right, when the original MRD Board posts (and subsequent MM articles) happened the Echinacea was the only Flower associated with the MRD. I can't remember when the Self-Heal was created (and I'm certain I wasn't involved, since I only realised the Self-Heal was an actual Real World flower today when reading this talk page!).
 * El calion (talk) 10:57, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Continua/Categories
Oops, I didn't see the sub-categories for the Flower pages. I should probably look through sub-categories before adding more pages to the main groups in the future; that was a bit embarrassing. The bit about the Batman continuum was largely because the continuum has the same name as the character, and I didn't think there should be extra pages with the same name. I see you solved that by just adding the Batman missions to the main DC page, which makes sense. Now that I see how few missions are in that contiuum, I realize that I should have just gone there first.

I'll just stick to updating things for a while, so I can pick up on the protocol. Your italics-rules post helped me with some of it earlier. Now I've just got to deal with all of the typos I leave behind.

Outhra (talk) 15:58, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Redirects
Could you take down this redirect? I made it by accident during my massive spree of wiki edits yesterday, and it's not really necessary anymore, but I don't have the ability to delete pages, even the ones that aren't pages in the traditional sense.

Outhra (talk) 00:50, April 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Done. >_> Hope you don't mind me cutting in.
 * Doctorlit (talk) 15:24, April 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not at all! The original question looks a little silly without the link in there any more, but at the redirect's down, and that's what needed to be done.
 * Outhra (talk) 21:14, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Canon Character Pages
Since you seem to be in charge of the wiki, I am contacting you about something I've noticed, which is that certain canon characters have wiki pages while others don't. I've noticed that many LOTR and HP characters have wiki pages, but that makes sense, since those are the two most protected continua. However, what I have noticed are pages for Captain Kathryn Janeway, Julian Bashir, Miles O'Brien, the Bashir Hologram, and though not technically a character, the U.S.S. Voyager. It seems somewhat random, and quite nonsensical, that much more famous characters like Spock don't have pages, while DS9 and Voyager characters do. Can these pages be deleted and consolidated into one page called "Star Trek Characters" or something to that effect, or should more Star Trek character pages be created to even things up? (I'm leaning towards the first option, and am willing to take on the task.) Hermione of vulcan (talk) 19:24, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'd just like to add to what Hermione said that, in the event of more character pages being added, I'm happy to help, and that if the existing pages are consolidated instead, it should probably be done by series&mdash;ie, one page for Star Trek: TOS, one for Star Trek: Voyager, and so on. It also sounds like it would work rather like the "Minor Harry Potter Characters" page. (And I'm happy to help with that as well.)

Actually, something that could be helpful would be to build up pages for as many fandoms as possible, listing the main characters and giving even just brief summaries. It could be a good resource.

DawnFire (talk) 20:47, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello! I am not technically in charge of the wiki, just to be clear&mdash;I just spend lots of time here and tend to know what's what. Big changes, like if you want to change how a whole class of things is handled, should still be discussed with the Board.


 * Looking at the pages you linked, Hermione, I have to agree with you. Most of them are pretty insular, linking only to each other (and now here) for the most part, without much about what makes them relevant to the PPC. Back when we first got the wiki, people (including me) added a bunch of stuff based just on their pet interests, so that's why it seems pretty random: it is.


 * Personally, I think linking to Memory Alpha is the best choice in most cases where links to characters might be appropriate (for instance, there's a quote attributed to Janeway on the Deus ex machina page), with some pages for people most impacted by badfic/PPC missions, or otherwise particularly relevant (e.g. the Bashir Hologram works in Medical). This is PPC Wiki, after all, not All Things Canon Wiki. If you guys want to do some work in that sphere, I'm all for it. Just remember to italicize the title of the show so I don't have to come in and do it later. {= P


 * ~Neshomeh 21:05, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree about Memory Alpha, but it might still be good to have a page about Star Trek characters and their connections to the PPC/portrayals in badfic. For example, I'm convinced that all the Star Trek captains besides Kirk have some amount of OOC Resistance, which could be useful for a new person writing in Star Trek. How do I delete the existing articles? Hermione of vulcan (talk) 21:34, March 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm... I don't know if I agree about the captains having OOC resistance. Most characters with that have it because they're usually sidelined by badfic authors, like Gimli and Éowyn; Elrond has it because of Vilya and also because he is ancient and exceptionally wise. I don't think any of that applies to the captains, and I know for a fact that Picard gets thrown OOC plenty.


 * Only admins can actually delete pages, but you can put up a deletion request using the  template. That gives other people a(nother) chance to weigh in.


 * By the way, it strikes me that the Star Trek page doesn't have a "Star Trek and the PPC" section. That might be a good place to start doing some expansion/elaboration.


 * ~Neshomeh 03:40, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, at least Janeway. She's not hot enough to be a Stu's love interest, and too old to be a Sue's BFF. Her personality also has a wide range of what's in character, so it's hard to throw her out of character. Picard seems to be able to resist mind control - it's heavily implied that he helped to defeat the Borg in "The Best of Both Worlds", even though he was Locutus at the time. In a more conventional sense, Geordi LaForge might have some OOC Resistance due to the Gimli Effect - best friend of a common Lust Object not hot enough to be noticed by a Sue.


 * I'll check out the Star Trek page and see what I can do there. Maybe a subsection under each series detailing "x series and the PPC"? Hermione of vulcan (talk) 04:06, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I still think it might be a good idea to have a separate page for each series (with the possible exception of TOS and AOS&mdash;those should probably be combined, with the differences between timelines/realities noted). If we're going to put in even a brief summary of the main characters of each series, one page for all of them could get pretty unwieldy. Also, it would mean that someone looking for information on Janeway wouldn't have to wade through all of the information on TOS, TNG, etc (assuming the page was done in chronological order). DawnFire (talk) 06:39, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Splitting up the main page into articles for each show (with AOS combined with TOS) makes sense to me. The current one IS fairly large at the moment, and that would give room for a short description of each main character.


 * Re. OOC resistance, it's not so much about how they are in canon as how they are in fanfic, I think. There are lots of characters with strong wills and other defenses who are pulled OOC all the time. Snape, for instance, is an Occlumens capable of standing up to Voldemort, but that doesn't stop the Sues. Not at all. -_-;


 * ~Neshomeh 14:52, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Default Sort Tag
Did you misspell my name intentionally when you added the default sort tag to my User Page? It is German 'Hieronymus', not British 'Hieronymous' (although I admit that it originated from a deliberate misspelling of 'anonymous'). If a consistent 'British voice' representation is not necessary for sorting purposes, don’t bother to do anything, I will change it with my next update. Hieronymus Graubart (talk) 08:06, August 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nope, that's just a plain old mistake on my part&mdash;one of two, actually. I caught the one where I accidentally transposed the i and the e, but missed that. Sorry!


 * And no, there's no uniform usage across the wiki, but we ask that each page pick a set of rules and stick to it. Hypothetically, this means British for British things (e.g. Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Huinesoron's creations), American for American things (e.g. Jay and Acacia's creations, Star Trek), etc., but in practice it mostly just depends on who made the page in the first place.


 * ~Neshomeh 14:29, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

"Crashing Down page" page
Just a thought I had a moment ago. Do we really need the "Crashing Down page" page any more? The whole purpose of it seemed to be a joke about that story not having a page, but well, it does have a page now... Ekyl (talk) 08:08, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree, we don't need that page anymore. There isn't even anything linking to it anymore&mdash;except apparently the History of the PPC, Part One page... How 'bout I go fix that, and then there will be nothing linking to "Crashing Down page," and it can be safely removed?


 * ~Neshomeh 16:38, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Shiny, I've marked it for deletion given I don't have fancy admin powers or anything. Ekyl (talk) 17:22, January 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * I might be more inclined to turn it into a discussion of the history of the page, in a suitably humorous-conspiracy-theory way, than to just delete a piece of Wiki-related history out of hand... Huinesoron (talk) 14:23, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Redirects
I've noticed (it would be hard not to) that you're on a quest to eliminate all redirects from the wiki. Which, in some cases, is admirable - 'Fates worse than death' is a prime example.

But there are cases which... really should exist. Not for linking, but for searching (which is, after all, the primary purpose of a wiki!). You recently deleted 'FF.Net', though I note the lowercase 'FF.net' is still there. Perhaps more significantly, searching for 'shipfest' turns up zero hits; 'shipficfest' pulls up only the Current Events page, which doesn't link to the wiki entry. Those are the two names I think of when I'm looking for what turns out to be filed as PPC Boarder Shipfic Fest.

I don't know whether those redirects ever existed; they may not have. But they're prime examples of the sort that need to, regardless of whether anyone links them.

Unfortunately, I can't find a 'recently deleted' page, so I can't see easily what you have and haven't been deleting. You may already have thought of this (I hope so!). But if you haven't, this is a helpful reminder. Huinesoron (talk) 14:23, April 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * That's a good point. Fortunately, I'm not out to eliminate all redirects, just stupid ones (like misspelled words and plurals/other word forms that can be made simply by adding -s, -ed, -ing, or whatever to the end of the linked term), and ones that aren't being used anyway (I remember "Acy" was one of them; I doubt anyone's searching that but not "Acacia").


 * If you want to see what's been deleted recently (and other behind-the-scenes sort of stuff), go to Wiki Activity, then click "See all activity >" near the top of the page. That'll show you all the behind-the-scenes type edits like deletions, image uploads, account creations, etc. If you want to see what I haven't deleted, check out the Redirects list. I'm going in alphabetical order, so I haven't come anywhere near ship[fic]fest yet. In my last spree, I got as far as Fill the Plothole; next on the list for my attention is "FinwÃ«", which is a first-class example of "why does this even exist?" {X D


 * ~Neshomeh 04:01, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Releasing a mission
Hey. So, did you know it takes twenty minutes to fully update the Wiki when you release a mission - assuming you don't need to add anything to your agents pages? That's not 'twenty minutes with a break to watch a video', either; to get the Wiki fully updated for the first two Driftwood missions, I had to make about ten different edits on widely-spaced pages.

So, uh... is there really no possible way to streamline some of this? Does Wikia provide no functionality for, say, automatically updating the mission count on the Complete List? Or even updating Current Events with Front Page edits? Huinesoron (talk) 20:27, October 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how automating any of this would work from Wikia's standpoint, I'm afraid. There is a tool called AutoWikiBrowser that you can download, and its function is to speed up the process of making lots of tedious little edits for common misspellings and such, but I don't know if it would help with this, since the format for mission links varies a bit from page to page. I don't see the average PPCer going for it anyway, but in your case, I can see why you'd want a shortcut. If you want to play with it, maybe you can let me know how it goes&mdash;I can't get it to work on my old laptop, so I haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet.


 * ~Neshomeh 22:35, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Permission
I posted a Permission Request on the Board a while ago. You should be able to find it easily.

ThArcanist 23:48, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Your "a while ago" seems to be less than an hour, if I'm converting all the time zones correctly. July already pointed this out in response to your "Target Acquired" post, but you really need to stop and read up on our rules before you do anything else. I recommend starting with the article about Permission and the moving on to the other links in the drop-down menu labeled "PPC Help and FAQs."


 * If you need help with anything, feel free to let me know. My contact information is listed on my user page here.


 * ~Neshomeh 00:43, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry. I don't really know how to make this work with the format, I noticed that this was a problem earlier.

Anyway, sorry for making you clean up the mess I left on a few pages. I didn't mean to get so...enthusiastic. I will try to be more controlled in the future.

ThArcanist 01:42, May 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I am forever at work on cleaning up the wiki, of my own free will, so I don't mind too much. Actually, I'm quite glad your edits brought the Bleach page to my attention, because a while back my project was to fix up all the pages about continua, and I'd missed that one because it wasn't in the right category. All's well that ends well. {= )


 * As for format and such, would you be interested in learning to use wiki markup instead of the Rich Text Editor? (I assume you're using the RTE because it's the default, but let me know if I'm wrong.) It's pretty simple once you get used to it, and I feel it gives you a lot more control over what you're doing. Plus, I've written a guide on how to edit the wiki using wiki markup, which is linked up in that drop-down menu I mentioned before. The RTE is supposed to be user-friendly and intuitive and all that, but I say Your Mileage May Vary. I personally prefer being able to see all the nuts and bolts. Let me know!


 * In any case, though, you can avoid automatically starting a new header on a Talk page just by clicking the "Edit" button next to one of the already-existing headers. Or you can just not fill in the box where it wants you to enter a header name.


 * ~Neshomeh 03:42, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

About images
Oh, sure! I made pictures for Jay and Acacia to demonstrate that I could do Agents too, in case anyone liked my images and wanted me to make one for their agents. I put it at the bottom since I just wanted them to be there, not actually replacing the awesome classic pictures up top. I just wanted them to be there, because I figured that if all the Sues they killed were getting images, it would make sense to make ones for the agents that killed them. If you don't like them, I would be fine with taking them down. There weren't any FAT models there, so I just picked the one that looked most like their picture.

And images are below their articles? Huh. Well, I'll have to fix that, didn't realize. And I didn't know about the images categories either. Thanks for telling me about both of these things! Have a nice day... Night... Whenever you're reading this!04:14, November 21, 2012 (UTC)Meow139 (talk) meow139

My little cousin plays with dollzmania all the time, and I thought that it was nice for Sue dolls. It's not the easiest site, but it gives a clearer figure image than TekTek, even if there are less options. Though I do like TekTek just because there are so many fun options.

Maybe I could make like a portfolio of 2-3 images on the blog post I wrote about the dolls.... Good idea!Meow139 (talk) 19:12, November 21, 2012 (UTC) meow139

Bad Slash page
Wow, thanks for fixing my redundancy on the Bad Slash page. You'd think I'd know to scan the article to see whether the information I was putting in might already be there. I'll blame it on the killer test I had on Friday. Because obviously, I never make mistakes unless under the influence of murderous exams. :P Chaoticidealism (talk) 18:56, March 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Haha, no problem. Exams certainly will fry your brain. Good luck with them! {= D


 * ~Neshomeh 23:24, March 24, 2013 (UTC)Though i

Tips on Sporking
Hi. Im trying to spork an alreay sporked story as practice. How should I go about this?

KittyEden (talk) 12:22, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hm, I think I'll need more information before I can offer any advice. First, what exactly do you mean by spork? Are you talking about a story in your Sue Slayers universe, or an MST, or...?


 * Second, what story, and have you read the previous sporking of it already?


 * Third, and this is mainly just curiosity, but why did you choose this particular story, and what do you think you'll learn from this experience that you wouldn't get by reading other sporkings, or writing a new one?


 * ~Neshomeh 14:18, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Recovered PPC Stuff
Just found some 2003 PPC Christmas filks while looking for old missions. They're not in your Songbook already (I couldn't find them, at least) so I thought you might want to add them.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041102085921/http://www.madeddy.net/misc/lotrcarol.htm

(I'm super-disappointed the missions from that same website seem unrecoverable. Apparently, my agent Vania wasn't the first to have that name! I wish there was a way to get all the missing ones back. :


 * Not sure about Vania, but I did find Karasunaki and Mariella. I think that's a first mission, too - which may well mean 'only'. Huinesoron (talk) 14:36, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Bleeding Hearts Division?
So, I finally rehosted "Cat, Hawk, Kitchen"&mdash;sorry for the delay&mdash;and while doing so, noticed that in the character journal, Agent Rumor says she "transfered to Bleeding Hearts," and later, that the "DBH is funfun to work in! The little kiddies are all really sweet!" This confused me, because a while ago, I had put Oracle's agents Rosemary and Mary Dill on the Glossary as DMS, Bleeding Hearts Division. I no longer know where I got the DMS part, but their story does name them as "with the Bleeding Hearts."

Okay, just found how I got DMS for Rosemary and Dill: it's because the List of RCs names Rumor and Evelen (RC 100) as DMS, Bleeding Hearts Division. (This was present on Araeph's original list.) (Oh, and on the Handbook Department List.)  And yet, I also just found an old TIANATDATPPCPart VI (# 427) that says, "I will stop describing what I did to my latest Sue in front of the Bleeding Hearts Nursery children." That mention of children seems to tie in with Rumor's account of working with children, but then, how is it connected to the DMS?

Do you remember anything that could shed light on this? Is this a DMS division that handles, uh, this fandom, possibly? Or is it related to the Nursery?Doctorlit (talk) 01:20, February 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * It's not a fandom thing, I know that. I think the idea was simply to rescue Suvian kids and bit-characters instead of assassinating them&mdash;not everyone is comfortable killing child-shaped things. They may have started the idea of a Nursery out of universe, but I don't know that for sure. It would make sense, though, fitting in with Kai's CAF Adoption Agency, and the earliest stories about the children of agents focus on their schooling and don't mention a Nursery as such, IIRC.


 * I was almost positive I remembered a mention of the Bleeding Hearts in the Original Series, but I went looking and couldn't find it, so I'm not sure what I was thinking of. Maybe another older spin-off.


 * In the search, though, I turned up something I'm not sure we've seen before. I'm not sure how, since it doesn't actually mention the Bleeding Hearts, but oh well. Sticking the link here for safekeeping.


 * "Avalon Falling," MST featuring FFeathers and Agents Roxie and Curare


 * ~Neshomeh 17:06, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

Awards
Something may be wrong with the Awards system. I just earned 10 points and the Gardener badge when I edited the "Glossary of PPC Characters". Does the Glossary count as a Flowers article because there are Flowers on it? I’m certain I never edited any other Flowers article. Hieronymus Graubart (talk) 08:33, April 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's based on the Categories. The Glossary is in the Category:Flowers, so the awards system counts it as a Flower article.  (Sorry for stepping in on your talk page, Neshomeh.)  Doctorlit (talk) 14:14, April 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * No problem. I'm busy today, and you are correct. It also counts as an Agent article, and there are awards for those, too. Thank hS for setting them up. {= ) ~Neshomeh 20:43, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Wonderful Wiki!
Hi, I'm part of Wikia's Community Support team. I don't remember how I got here (must have been a link somewhere or other on Wikia) but what a wiki! It's the first one since TV Tropes that I've started reading, and got lost in a forest of open tabs as I had to check out just one more link! You have an addictive style here.

So I just had to leave a note to say how impressed I am by the wiki, and how pleased I am that you are on Wikia.

Please let me know if you need anything, either on my Community Central message wall, or via Special:Contact (I'll probably miss it if you leave a message here). We can help with a new skin, theme, or logo. Or maybe in designing a new main page (especially with fluid width on the way). Or we can help with designing complex templates or with changing settings or turning on features like message wall! two way notifications! - Just let me know, and I'll try to help. -- sannse (help forum | blog) 23:11, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I'd just like to thank you for editing my page :)

I'll use the formatting that you used from now on, thank you :)

LightDarkPheonix (talk) 18:27, December 6, 2013 (UTC)LightDarkPheonix

FicPsych question
In the case of injured canon characters in dire need of FicPsych help, is there some level of medical help the FicPsych folks can handle, or would that definitely need a trip to Medical first? Also, are they likely to have ever seen a character that has literally split into two copies of himself, both intent on severely hurting (and making out with) the other copy?

Miah 79 (talk) 19:17, April 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * No, I can't say they've probably had a case like that before. I'll be interested to see how the heck that comes about. O.o


 * And, yep! Jennifer Robinson is also a healer. She's not up for handling major internal damage, but she can set simple fractures (with help), deal with concussions, suture flesh wounds, treat mild to moderate burns, etc. I wrote Nathonea Dewstan helping Medical out during the 2008 Sue Invasion, too; she probably has first aid training and a good bit of experience. Feel free to use them&mdash;it would be nice to get a weird case like that on their records. I'd just want to take a look before you publish. {= )


 * ~Neshomeh 22:06, April 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * There's also always the Black Cross; I suspect (but can't prove, since it's never been said) that part of their job is to respond when another department needs medical assistance on-site. Huinesoron (talk) 07:57, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Isn't that exactly what the wiki says their job is? Just a bit of a different wording. I might have to do stuff with the BC next time I get around to writing stuff. Ekyl (talk) 14:26, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

More different question
Oh, hello.

I remember you. You're one of the people that answers my posts most often on the Board.

How are you doing?

So, I want to ask you about something. When you answered latest post, titled "On Making Emergency Events", you gave a pretty short answer, and you directed me toward the thread about making Emergency events. I got my question answered, and all that. But I got the impression that you are tired of answering questions like that. I'm not saying you were rude about it or anything, but that's how I took it.

I know you didn't mean anything by it, because I have no reason to believe otherwise, but I have to ask. How long have you been around? I checked your profile, and it said, er, 2006? Something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if you are an experienced PPC'er, do you mind if I occasionally ask you for advice in writing missions? After I get permission, obviously.

- Signed Dark Brother 16, who will remember to sign his own post next time.


 * I admit, I was and still am a little annoyed. I don't have a problem with questions as a rule, but I do have a problem when the answer is literally right in front of you and you don't bother to look. It's like being in class, and the teacher just finished explaining exponents, and then you raise your hand and ask "what's an exponent?" so the teacher has to go over it again, and everyone else is bored to death and gets behind in the lesson because you weren't paying attention.


 * Same goes for asking me how long I've been around when you were looking at my profile before you posted. If you can't be bothered to attend to the information I've already given you right there on the page, black and white, in plain English, why should I help you? How do I know I won't be wasting my time?


 * Furthermore, how are the Permission-Givers (free hint: I am one) supposed to know we can trust you with something as vast and complex as the PPC universe?


 * Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. {= /


 * ~Neshomeh 15:15, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

Blog on Central
Hi

I thought you might like to know that I mentioned this wikia on the staff blog on Community Central. Thanks to all here for creating such a great wikia! (I left this here as you are the most recently active admin, and the wikia doesn't seem to use the forum (or have the new forum enabled)) (yes I use too many parentheses) -- sannse (help forum | blog) 14:23, October 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, Sannse!


 * I don't know if my comment on your blog post went through, so I'll try saying it here, as well.


 * Thanks for your kind words! I have to admit, we've always been a fairly small and insular community, so it feels a little odd to receive "official" outside attention like this (which is why I never responded to your first post here&mdash;sorry about that!), but it's nice all the same. If you're interested, please feel free to drop by the PPC Posting Board and say hi sometime. We always like greeting new people. {= )


 * By the way, you did get the description right. There's only so much you can tell in just a few words, but you picked good ones.


 * Thanks again!


 * ~Neshomeh 15:03, October 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm glad I got the description right. I came across this wikia by chance - I wander around following questions and problems, and end up on all sorts of wikias.  I started reading to understand what it was all about, and got hooked.  You are building a great resource here.  Thanks again for using Wikia, it's good to have you here -- sannse  (help forum | blog)  21:57, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Halloween
I saw this and thought of you -- sannse (help forum | blog)  13:38, November 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * Haha, that's great. Who knew the SO was acquainted with Bette Midler? ^_^ Thanks! ~Neshomeh 15:47, November 4, 2014 (UTC)

RE:
Yes, as a matter of fact I have read your mission. I am surprised that is the only mission that tasks place in the HTTYD universe as there are over 10K HTTYD fanfiction stories on FF.net at this time. I'm sure I will have several more reports to file soon, including one that will require the attention of the department of bad slash. Rider ranger47 (talk) 22:36, December 14, 2014 (UTC)

I don't want to go editing your agent's page without permission, so I thought I'd just let you know the MIL mission actually takes place in November 2014, HST.

RinaAndRanda (talk) 21:27, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Alternate Universe pages
To the Chief Custodian of the Libraries of Wechi, from the Librarian of Fanvik Whirl & of the Archives of Batveg, greetings.

How do you feel about using sub-pages for pages in AU 'verses? I mean the sort of way we've done the PPC Rec Center or the Intelligence reports. I was thinking that it might be a perfect way to distinguish AU!PPC categories - so rather than the awkward 'Makes-Things (Mirror Muiltiverse)', we could have 'Mirror Multiverse/Makes-Things'.

Obviously, most AUs simply sit on their agent's home page, but there are those who need more space. Before even considering doing anything, though, I thought I'd ask your thoughts. Huinesoron (talk) 07:18, January 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * Hm... well, the benefit to "Makes-Things (mirror)" is that it will come up in the list of prompts if you're trying to link to a Makes-Things. It's a little more difficult to find "Mirror Multiverse/Makes-Things," and might necessitate the use of redirects like "Makes-Things (mirror)" anyway for ease of use, as with the more prominent minis.


 * On the other hand, I don't imagine the AU pages are in high demand for linking except with each other and their primeverse counterparts, so that might be okay, and there is some appeal in putting the various AUs in their own little sub-page worlds.


 * So... I dunno, I could go either way. I suggest seeking the opinions of other noble librarians, archivists, and historians.


 * ~Neshomeh 18:00, January 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * One solution to that problem would be naming such pages "Makes-Things/Mirror" rather than "Mirror Multiverse/Makes Things." Of course, that's not functionally different from "Makes-Things (mirror)," other than how Wikia files pages.  And like Nesh said, the EPC isn't exactly current events at the moment, so those pages presumably aren't seeing much browsing or usage in new edits, anyway.  I don't know if it's worth restructuring all those pages and their links.
 * Doctorlit (talk) 05:52, January 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * Fair points to you both. I'm actually thinking of a different AU, but consistency would be good... and editing all the existing ones would be a royal pain... yeah, Nesh's comment about the list of prompts has swayed me on this one. Despite the urge to neatness, I'll put it aside and stick with AU Article (Parenthetical). Thanks for the input! Huinesoron (talk) 21:50, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

My profile
Please do not edit my user profile page. I understand you were trying to fix formatting and italics, but please message me about it instead of changing it yourself. --  Ώ Rider ranger47  ］［ Talk Contributions ］  11:52, April 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if my edits offended you. I'm in the practice of doing pretty much the same stuff to every new profile page, but it won't happen again&mdash;just make sure to keep the default sort tag in place and use proper SPaG, treatment of titles, etc. {= ) ~Neshomeh 13:40, April 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * What is the default sort tag?  Ώ Rider ranger47  ］［ Talk Contributions ］  14:48, April 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * ... Huh, looks like I forgot to put it in. Just copy this and stick it at the bottom of the page:


 * That way, your user page will be listed under R for Rider instead of U for User in any categories it's in.


 * Also, please find somewhere for the Skype doodad that doesn't put a lot of blank white space at the top of the page? Thanks.


 * ~Neshomeh 21:23, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) It actually does not need the tag for that, see Category:Beta_Readers. And I am perfectly happy with the Skype widget the way it is.  Ώ Rider ranger47 ］［ Talk Contributions ］  23:06, April 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * Give me one objective reason why having extraneous empty white space is superior to NOT having extraneous empty white space, and I might let it go. Otherwise, you're blatantly disregarding a polite, reasonable request from an admin for no good reason, and that would irritate me quite a lot. ~Neshomeh 00:29, April 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * Look, I don't want to be rude or anything, but it is MY profile. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. I am allowed to do anything I want with my profile as long as it does not violate the Wikia Terms of Use. This is a really stupid thing to be arguing over. Can we please move on?  Ώ Rider ranger47  ］［ Talk Contributions ］  00:47, April 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't either, but I'm pretty sure wiki users are required to follow the rules of the wiki they're on. I'm not aware of any official or unofficial rule stating that user pages are exempt from following style guidelines and whatnot&mdash;and just because we don't have a guideline about widgets yet doesn't mean we can't set one now that it's come up. I'm open to being contradicted if you can find a Wikia source on the topic, but if you can't, you really don't have a leg to stand on here. And I agree it's a dumb thing to argue about. {= / ~Neshomeh 02:47, April 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * Okay, jumping in as requested on the Board. You're both right, this is a bit of a stupid thing to be arguing over. So, can we agree to the following?


 * Nesh, profile pages are usually something of a personal space on a wiki - even if it's just for formatting changes, if someone's active in the community, could we make a habit out of poking them for permission before editing their profile page?
 * Rider, Nesh's changes and suggestions have been good things for the page. They've also been really minor. Moving the skype widget to avoid the weird empty space across the top of the page is also both minor and good. (Unless I'm missing seeing some CSS weirdness with the widget, of course.) Could you please do that?
 * And finally - is there a way to set a default template for user pages that will include all the useful formatting so people can put in content and have it look good? My profile, for example, is currently a total mess, and having a well-formatted template to start from would be helpful. Techno-Dann (talk) 04:36, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * There actually might be some CSS that I can get to remove the padding (white space). If someone would be willing to add it, I will have no problem creating it.  Ώ Rider ranger47  ］［ Talk Contributions ］  11:14, April 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * For the record, Dann, my main issue here is that this is how the conversation went, from my perspective: "Hey Nesh, mind asking me about any changes you want to make instead of just making them?" - "Sure, no problem! Say, could you please make this little change?" - "I don't have to listen to you on MY page, and I probably never intended to, so no. Now go away, I don't wanna talk to you no more, silly Eenglish pig-dog."


 * ... Admittedly that last bit is more an attempt to keep the mood light than an accurate representation of anything. But seriously, getting brushed off immediately after agreeing to play nice and ask first felt pretty damn dismissive and disrespectful. {= /


 * Re. automatic formatting, I once tried to figure out how to automatically include the infobox template, but it wasn't possible&mdash;at least, not that I could figure out at the time. The rest of what I typically do has nothing to do with page structure, the page's content, or anything else that I fully agree should be up to the user's discretion. There are three main things:


 * I add the "User" and "PPC Boarder" categories, if the user hasn't already done it. It might be possible to add the User category automatically, but I don't think the PPC Boarder category should be automated. Not everyone who creates an account here always posts on the Board.
 * I add the default sort tag I mentioned above. That way, the user page is automatically sorted according to the actual name and not "User" without each category on the page having to be edited individually. I don't think this can be automated, but if it can, I'd be happy to do it.
 * I apply italics to titles of long works and quotation marks to titles of short works. I DO ask people to do this by means of the Style section of the Help:Editing page, and there's a link to that with a request to read it on every single new user page. Nobody's paying attention.


 * Other things I might do include putting the user's name in bold when it's mentioned in the lead, fixing the infobox if someone's grabbed the source code instead of the template code (which still happens occasionally despite my best efforts to make it easier not to), and fixing any clear SPaG errors. Most of this stuff is functionally invisible.


 * I don't feel this is terribly intrusive. I do feel it would be terribly tedious to ask permission every single time and have to keep track until it's taken care of by the user, if it's taken care of. However, I could edit the automated message that appears on every new user page, advising them of these things and that I'll be around to make the aforementioned edits if the user doesn't. Would that be fair?


 * ~Neshomeh 16:40, April 18, 2015 (UTC)