Talk:Sherlock Holmes

PPC knowledge?
Since when, and how, does Mr. Holmes know about the PPC? And is it just me who thinks the Canons Who Know About the PPC category is getting a wee bit overcrowded of late? Ekyl (talk) 06:09, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

It's been established in the BBC series missions that their Sherlock is genre-savvy enough to know about the PPC when he gets character replaced. It's kinda a thing where he wakes up in a plothole and can deduce why he's here and that it's happened to him before.

I've only added Sherlock and the TARDIS to the category; given the wide amount of canons out there I don't think it's that crowded. It'd only be crowded if every canon had someone who recognised the PPC Agents. Lily Winterwood (talk) 06:16, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

The overcrowding comment wasn't really directed at you as such, more a general observation - I sometimes worry that people are just tossing their favourite canons in that category to make them look cool. I'm not sure I buy Sherlock's PPC knowledge as anything more than a temporary thing - unlike the TARDIS and similar entities, it's actually possible to neuralyse him. Ekyl (talk) 06:18, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

It is a temporary knowledge that can be Neuralysed, but the guy seems to deduce it back right away the next time 'round. Both he and Mycroft have, while in their plotholes, recognised Agents working in their field. So yes, he does know of the PPC, but he is often persuaded to forget. Lily Winterwood (talk) 06:27, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Iiiii dunno if I buy that logic, Lily. I'd be interested to know what empirical evidence can be found in a plothole upon which to base a deduction about anything, let alone the existence of a specific, highly fantastical, multi-dimensional organization that polices fictional realities. Especially since the PPC takes care not to leave evidence of itself lying around (or should do). I'll buy that Sherlock can figure out that something exceedingly strange is going on every single time, and maybe even that he's not so attached to his preconceptions about reality that he couldn't accept being a fictional entity threatened and protected by entities from some weird external reality, but deduction isn't magic; it needs true and complete facts to work from in order to produce a true and accurate conclusion. (Unrelated: I have cringed every single time I've run across the phrase "Sherlock deduced me" or some variant. You are not a conclusion arrived at by means of logical inference, goddamn it! Sherlock may be able to deduce facts about you, but he cannot deduce you.)

Also, something I've said before and will continue to insist upon is that the PPC does not exist in canon; therefore, knowledge of it is not canonical and really ought to be expunged when the canon snaps back, just like all the non-canon stuff from the badfic. I know there's precedent for characters remembering PPC agents, but there's precedent for them not remembering, too, and that's what makes the most sense to me. If you think about it, if memories of the PPC (or previous badfics) can crop up again, that means the canon didn't completely snap back at some point, and that means someone didn't do their job properly, which is a bad thing. With someone like Gaspode the Wonder Dog, it's funny because part of his whole deal is that no one realizes when he's talking anyway, so why not let him remember? Who's he gonna tell? You can't say that about most characters, though. The more instances of characters knowing about the PPC that crop up, the more evidence we have that the agents in those fandoms are getting sloppy, and that's something that should be avoided.

(Deities and other ineffably omniscient beings are, of course, exempted from this discussion.)

~Neshomeh 04:19, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Good point. He doesn't know of the PPC as a whole, he just knows that 1) he's been taken out of Baker Street to an unspecified location 2) there are holes in his memory 3) these holes relate to that extremely attractive (in an objective sense) female he met a couple unspecified time-blocks ago 4) these other people dressed in black that have appeared out of nowhere in this unspecified location are assassins.

I have a scene where he deduces Eledhwen's career from her appearance and her accent:

“Somehow I doubt that’s your real name.” Sherlock’s eyes flickered up and down her form, obviously trying to piece together her life story. “There’s something strange about you. Your English is accented, but I can’t identify the accent. You carry an expensive-looking star-shaped ring around your neck on a chain, but the rest of your clothes are extremely well-worn – possibly three or four years old. You also have knives hidden in your boots. Obviously someone who sees a lot of battle or conflict, but you’re not tanned from service abroad like John.” He paused. “Assassin, foreign born and raised, overworked and underpaid. Am I wrong?”

I guess we should clarify that he doesn't know it's the PPC; he just knows that these strangers, whenever he's made aware of them/they make themselves known to them, are helpful in relieving him of his situation/restoring him to John and co/setting things right. So in a way, he bears characteristics of those who know of the PPC, but he doesn't know of the organisation. Lily Winterwood (talk) 05:29, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. As long as he's drawing conclusions based on the facts in front of him and in his own head, and not leaping to realizations outside his frame of reference. {= ) ~Neshomeh 16:43, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, though I'd say it doesn't actually count for membership in the Canons Who Know About The PPC category. Ekyl (talk) 17:34, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. Delete it from that category page if necessary. And we can clarify about what abiities he does have. Lily Winterwood (talk) 17:29, March 1, 2014 (UTC)