Category talk:Slain Mary Sues

Is this for all Mary Sues, or just the particularly obnoxious ones?Miah 79 21:48, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * If they're dead, they belong here. ~Neshomeh 02:30, May 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * For future reference, my above statement is no longer the case. The Boarders voted (see the results summed up here), and only the most unique or impactful Sues need be cataloged in the future. ~Neshomeh 23:36, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sue Evaluation Coordination
Since I think this is where everyone said they want to coordinate from, I'm starting this here. Dividing these Sues up evenly, the four of us would each get 37 Sues to evaluate. As Neshomeh mentioned in the Poll thread, that might involve involve reading the mission the Sue came from, especially if they seem unique, but the article is incomplete. I'd also like to note if a page lacks links, it automatically needs improvment, something I also did not meniton in the thread on the board. Guvnor Of Space 20:49, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Proposed Division of Sues:

Antigone68104: Aeyrn --> Christina Duke

Eileen alphabet: Cordelia Driscol --> Kanami Kimura

Guvnor of Space: Katherine May Gibbs -->Peony

Lunar Huntress: Pheonix --> Zane


 * Roger that! - EileenAlphabet 22:20, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll get started - Antigone68104 00:28, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Think I can help? I'm set to help too. I'm also willing to get rid of some of my own pages. Jack the Wolf and Dragona might not be too essential.Aster Corbett 23:48, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

To quote the original poll thread " I suggest that members of this group should not have made Sue pages themselves so as to eliminate personal bias, and also that they should be willing to read the missions in question to make the best evaluation and/or improvement(s)." I like this, but if others disagree, that's fine. However, I don't see anything wrong with you removing pages you made. --Guvnor Of Space 23:54, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Guidelines?
Will the folks reviewing the Sue/Stu pages be recommending guidelines for adding future Sue/Stu pages? I'd hate to see it end up that new ones are never added for fear of not meeting a vague 'significant' enough threshold. For instance before this was started, I was planning on talking to Caddy about adding one for Heather based on her significance to the character of Agent Cadmar, and clear guidelines are comforting to me. Miah 79 00:38, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Guidline Proposal: Uniqueness: If a Sue Stu is particularly unusual, or had a particularly special effect on canon, than they are "unique." For example, a Sue that, say, turns all generic surface into glitter is unique.

Notability: If a Sue or Stu is particularly famous, or from the Original Series, than they are "notable." For example, Laura, of "Legolas by Laura," is a particularly notable Sue.

These are the guidlines I propose. Or rather, this is how I interpret the poll results, and therefore the original directive. The idea, I think, is to cut down on standard Sues. In my opinion, Sues whose significance is mainly to an agent do not nessesarily need their own page. Of course, that's my opinion. "Notability" could be interpreted to mean Sues that are of particular importance to particular agents. I think others need to weigh in on this. Guvnor Of Space 00:47, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm ... if an active agent is recruited from a Suefic, I'm leaning toward letting that count toward notability. Trouble is, you'd need to wait a few missions to tell if a recruit is going to work out as an agent before putting the Sue page up.

I'm also leaning toward keeping Sue pages that are excellent examples of how a Sue would work in a specific continuum. For instance, Alanna (Sue) is textbook Pern Sue; we don't (seem to) get a lot of Pern missions, but her page could be useful to someone sending agents into Pern.

I'm willing to be overruled on either of these, though. Antigone68104 16:32, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Opinion on your points: I don't know about either of these. Personally, I'm for removing those pages, on the following basis: For the agents one, I'm of the opinion that an agent page should be the go to source for information on specific agents, even ones recruited from badfic. This also eliminates the problem of knowing whether or not the recruited character 'works out' as an agent.' This ties in to my previously stated belief that Sues who are notable only because of significance to an agent should not have pages. I'm leary of allowing pages for Sues that are significant for agents because that begs the question of what exactly that means. Are they significant because an agent really hated them, or because they injured, or nearly injured an agent, or because, for whatever reason, that Sue did something that impacted the agents personailty? Significance to the overall canon (Original Series Sues), famousness (John Freeman and Laura) or just bizarre deviations (A Sue that replaces generic surface with glitter) are easier to see. I'm still curious as to what others think of this- this is my personal opinion, and there are four of us working on these pages. I'd like your opinions. As for 'textbook examples,' I'm of the opinion that the wiki pages on various canons should cover these- the Stargate page is a good example. The Pern page is not. I think that Sue trends should be added to that page, since a 'textbook sue' from any continuum is one of the things I thought we were seeking to eliminate here. Guvnor Of Space 17:08, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Guvnor on this one. As I am going through the pages, I am looking for Sues that are not 'textbook', but who act above and beyond standard Sue behavior. (Excactly what constututes above and beyond, I am still making my mind up about; so far I'm compiling a list to get an overview. Sorry about being vague.) But the Sues I am so far leaning towards keeping, are the ones who make me think 'Whoa, we don't see that everyday and thank the Maker for that.' EileenAlphabet 21:15, December 13, 2011 (UTC)



Progress?
I'm kind of curious about the progress of the others working on this. I've been slowed down by finals week, but I should get around to finsihing my Sues this weekend. How are you guys doing? Guvnor Of Space 12:02, December 15, 2011 (UTC)  

Just finished my initial pass. At the moment, I'm voitng for the deltion of 20/37 pages I have for review. (Six were Original Seris Sues, so the real number is more like 20/31.) That probably won't change.Guvnor Of Space 19:42, December 15, 2011 (UTC)</li></li>

I hope I can the rest done this weekend as well. I think I'm recommeding delition for about half of them (not counting TOS Sues). I've made some notes explaining my decision in each case. EileenAlphabet 22:22, December 16, 2011 (UTC)</li></li></li>



Sue Page Results
Add your Sues to this section in alphabetical order, with your name at the top of the section you had, as I'm going to. Each CFD (Candidate for Deletion, figured I'd post that for those who aren't familiar with this project) should eventually be reveiwed by two people, so if you're finished and want to start going over someone else's Sues, that'd be great. Once we have the whole list reviewed and finished, I think we should post it on the board. If anyone who did not write it thinks a Sue page should not be deleted, I think we should review their reasoning, and as a group decide if we agree or disagree with them. Guvnor Of Space 20:02, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Also, if you have dead IndeeMaat Links, it turns out she has a Livejournal with almost everything on it here.

Sue reviewed by EileenAlphabet 11:45, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Cordelia Driscol. While she is a very annoying Sue, I don't see her as being specially unique or having a special impact. Claiming to be Snape's niece, learning everything ridiciously fast and being a druid priestess are all expressions of wellknown Suetraits. Her atheme is actually more unique than she is. Verdict: Delete.

Damien. TOS Sue. The isn't much info about her, so I don't think the article can be expanded.

Dawn. Lusts after a Wraith and makes changes to the biology and psychology of the species, but nothing totally out of the ordinary. Verdict: Delete.

Deez. I don't see a lot of villain!Sues and as much as it squicks me out, I must admit that female on male sexual abuse is also rare. And she makes the hostile room. Verdict: Page should be expanded, but can be kept.

Deminica. TOS Sue; also, her fic was the infamous code 18, which would make it worth preserving, even if she wasn't TOS.

Destini Star. Since she is the only Sue I have heard of, who actually comits suicide upon seeing her own end, I think that makes her notable. Also, she is a bubble wearing plush dinosaurs as underwear. Verdict: Needs to be expanded, but can be kept.

Dragona. I can't see that she is or does anyhting really over-the-top, except for claiming to be a canon character's mother. She isn't given a lot of screen time in the mission either. Verdict: Delete.

Dyzl ro'Jinte. Can't even find the mission. And the description doesn't seem to point to him doing anything. Verdict: Delete.

Elena Russo. Making everyone around her stupid to make herself seem smarter? Typical Sue-behavior. Making even an agent unprofessional (Tasmin hits the OC)? That's over-the-top. Verdict: Keep, but should include the part about her making even agents unprofessional.

Elessario. Being a Harry Potter Sue who drags in two other canons simply to give herself an overblow pedigree is impressive in a twisted way. Verdict: Keep.

Elizabeth Bennet (How dare she use that name!). Seems pretty standard. She makes a complete mess of the timeline, but most likely because she has only read the first book or seen the first movie and have no idea what happens next, rather than because of any deliberate effort. Verdict: Delete.

Elvira Flameheart Magiseer. TOS Sue.

Emily. A scheming little player as she might be, she doesn't stike me as that unusual. Verdict: Delete.

Emily Smith. Can't find the mission on this one either, but from the desciption, she doesn't seem unique. Verdict: Delete.

Emma Silverblade. TOS Sue.

Erik Servint. Pretty standard Stu. Verdict: Delete.

Evelyn Eliza. Sleeps with both Elladan and Legolas and have them fight over her and then forgive her. Also this Sue was created by someone who had actually read the books. I say she qualifies. Verdict: Keep.

Felicity Brown. Pretty standard Sue behaviour. Verdict: Delete.

Forlay. The fic is unusual, but the main Sue is Gem Stoned and there's a page on her. Verdict: Delete, keep the other one.

Fraya Montag. Has supernatural flameproof skin in a world where that doesn't exist, but other than that, she doesn't do much. Verdict: Delete.

Gem Stoned. I have never seen a blatant-self-insert/godplayer Sue who makes the characters fans of her fanfics, so IMO that makes her special. Verdict: Keep.

Gemini Stone. TOS Sue.

Gwendolyn Elizabeth Huntington. TOS Sue.

Hanae. TOS Sue.

Heather Draconius. Annoying overachiver!Sue with many of the standard Potterverse-Sue trait. Verdict: Delete.

Honesah Hoononee Keemo. She's a humanoid Pegacorn with blue and gold striped hair. And Legolas still falls in love with her. This is so insanely bad (or badly insane) that she is used as an example on the Mary Sue page. Verdict: Keep.

Icy. Standard military overachiver feminist!Sue. Verdict: Delete.

Isabella Pierce. Moving Middle-earth to another galaxy, saving two canons from their canonical deaths (which possibly would mean that she should be two places at ones) and making Elrond fail at simple maths strikes me as remarkable. Verdict: Keep.

Jack the Wolf. I'm a bit on the fence on this one. He doesn't do anything I can call unique, since most of it has been done many times over by various Sues and Stus, but he does so many things. The whole thing is a mess of canon breaches and Stu traits being piled on top of each other. Verdict: Keep, unless others think it should go.

Jackson Earl Simon. Sadly, squickfic in canons meant for children are not that rare. This guys only real claim to fame seems to be that he has incredible boring desciptions of incredibly gory scenes. Verdict: Delete.

Jaycacia Thornbyrd. Oh, how I love those stories! She's a classic. Verdict: Keep!

Jayson. Mission has apparently been moved to a google document. https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=19EprDuFxOQWljGI_mTMjeoZzi9EQI9UmTVKxIZuq1Sc Messes up the Discworld canon pretty badly and is a blatant Stu, but nothing really out of the ordinary. Verdict: Delete.

Jessica Luke. Punctuation is no-existant and the Sue had clearly begun posting her story before she had thought the plot all the way through, but other than that, she is pretty standard. Verdict: Delete.

John Freeman. The Livejournal with the missions seem to have been deleted. However this Stu apparently stared in a number of fics and the author has some notoriety. Verdict: Keep, unless others think it should go.

Kana. Stupid and speshul. Nothing I can see that makes him stand out. Verdict: Delete.

Kana Horrendous the Third. This Sue has one of the worst cases of as-syndrome (where everything happens at the same time) I have ever seen. She tranforms onto a dragon by shedding her damn skin. And the fic contains some sort of urple magic that turns the Kendar-agent into an anime-character. Verdict: Keep.

Kanami Kimura. Another overachiver!Sue who confuses bitchy with badass. Verdict: Delete.

The Sues originally reviewed by Guvnor of Space. All Sue's marked CFD, in his opinion, are not unique or notable enough to have their own page.

Katherine May Gibbs- CFD

Kay-Cee Carter- CFD

Kayla Shepard- Probably Notable do to glitterizing surfaces. No re-writing neede

Kayla "Kay" Troy- CFD

Kelly- No links on page. Link is here CFD

Kirox, Lykas, and Lunavier-CFD

Kithra- Article needs links/rewrite if notable. Links to part one here CFD

Kivan Silverblade'- Original series Sue. No re-writing needed

Ky-Wynn Ekiee Bethia Agosto Kai-Isteea-Calldwell-Bell-Renno-Angelo-CFD, if not deleted re-writing and links needed

Laura- The famous Laura of Legolas by laura. I vote we keep this one for that reason. If the famousness of the fic does not count for notability, than this is a CFD, but I think it should. Does not need a re-write

Laurel- Original series Sue. No re-writing needed

Leah- CFD

Leslie Kendall - Article in need of rewrite, link here, CFD

Link- Original Series Sue. No re-writing needed

Lossenlindëiel- I don’t know what to do with this one. The article needs to be re-written if we are keeping it. This Sue is extremely vanilla, but seems to be important in events in Tawaki’s spinoff? I’m going to call it a CFD, but if anyone else feels differntly, speak up.

Lucy-Elissa-Romances an eldritch abomination and an old man, not to mention she’s supposedly old and becomes young in Dragon Age World. I vote we keep it. Article has a few typos that could use fixing 

Mackenzie Skyler Harkness McPhee-CFD. Link is here

Maddie and Terrah- These two are very odd, and do strange things. I vote we keep them. Article does not need re-writing

Maeluiwen- I... don’t get this. Does this really belong in the slain Sues category?

Marissa Amber Flores Picard- Not seeing anything particularly special about this one, besides the sheer amount of stuff apperently written about her. CFD


 * Never mind. She's on the Legendary Badfic page. I somehow missed this the first time I looked on there. Also, no link to the actual mission in the article. That should be corrected. (This is the link ) Guvnor Of Space 01:58, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Matrix-Original Series Sue. Might want to expand this page a bit

Matt Krueger-CFD

Megan Dumbledore- Link is here. Is a CFD

Megan Shepard-Gibbs -She’s the target of multiple assassination attempts and has fourteen body guards. That’s so Sueish, unique and stupid all at the same time.

Miley- Article needs re-write if notalbe, but I think it's a CFD Link is here

Mithril Starlight-Original Series Sue. Article could maybe go more in depth, but looks pretty good.

Morgain-No links, little is written here. I can’t even figure out which Agent sporked her. (No results found for an “Agent Glass.”) I vote for deletion if someone can’t give me more info. Heck, even if they can, this looks like a CFD anyway.

Morgan Jacobs-I’m on the fence here. On the one hand, this is the only shared Sue I’ve ever seen. On the other hand, she has nothing going for her beyond that. Plus, no links, and I can't even find any on IndeeMaat's main mission page.

Mothiel-CFD

Nadia-Hmm. I’m borderline here, too, because this Sue seems so utterly a normal Sue, yet is a Harry Potter/Pern crossover Sue, which in and of itself is odd, not to mention she pulls out all the stops to let us know she’s a Sue. I’m going to vote this as a keeper, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of you disagrees with me. If so, I'll change my vote here to a CFD. In any case, it’s a very well written article, so no re-write needed.

Narnia "Nia" Evenshire- CFD

Norman Jaden-CFD

OOP-937-Ugh. This is definitely worth keeping, but this article is in crazy need of a re-write.

Pangaea-Original Series Sue. No need for a re-write

Parker DiNozzo-I think this is one of the youngest Sues I’ve ever seen. Should be kept, but the article badly needs a re-write

Penny Smith-CFD

Peony- CFD

Adding Sue Pages During the Evaluation?
I had a question I wanted to ask about Sue and Stu pages, and I wanted to ask in case I write a Stu page in the near future while you're going about with the re-organization of the entire category. Keep in mind that I entirely doubt that the mission that the Stu I'm thinking of writing a page for will be finished before you guys are done checking that, but this might be helpful for other people who want to ask the same question.

If we write up a Sue and Stu page and want to post it at any time during the evaluation, will we have to hand it to one of the four evaluators to make sure it's notable enough?Herr Wozzeck 02:07, December 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Good question. I don't have a definite answer for you. I'm leaning towards no adding of new pages until the evaluation is over, though. As for "the four reviewers," well, Lunar Huntress has yet to post anything here and I may be looking to replace her. Guvnor Of Space 02:37, December 18, 2011 (UTC)