Talk:Dubious Lube

We've seen blood and saliva,

And maybe McGyver,

Could make something of all of this mess,

But we know that you aren't him,

And that's why we're chanting;

"PPC, bitch, now let's hear you confess";

You've no imagination

And you're no hand at lubrication

And you should have known better, now put down that tube-

"He broke my concentration,

Through anal penetration,

And I shouldn't have gone for the dubious lube" - inspirational poetry by JulyFlame and Trojie.

In many continua warriors could, theoretically, be expected to carry around oil, as non-stainless steel needs to be oiled regularly to prevent rust. It wouldn't work as well as the fanwriters expect, but it would probably work. Blood, from what I've read, just tears things up worse. GreyLady, this reminds me of the tail end of the Oddlots essay on How Not to Write M-E Romance: "Lavender is an antiseptic..." On the other hand, there are apparently published yaoi comiccers who are under the impression that the anus is self-lubricating. In humans, even.Glass 00:04, 16 May 2008 (CDT)
 * Yeah, but your logical reason for carrying around oil supposes that the Elves are also carrying armour, which they seldom do in badslash. Sigh. In fact, the only reference to armour I recall in slash is in a BagEnders Non-Plot-Defining Random Slashy Interlude, where Aragorn fantasises about removing Boromir's chainmail with his teeth, before concluding that it would be easier to remove it 'the normal way'. Sadly, the logic of you and I is not the logic of badslashers. - Trojie
 * Maybe Elves wouldn't be wearing armour, but they'd probably be carrying weapons, which would need oiling as well. (Cassie Cameron-Young)
 * I refuse to believe that Elves would be so thoughtless as to waste the oil they need to keep their weapons functioning in order to have it off with some grubby Ranger :) - Trojie
 * I dunno, I'd say that with a grubby Ranger the oil would be needed for sure. He's probably too grubby to, erm, go smoothly without it. July who is laughing her head off 20:31, 16 May 2008 (CDT)
 * Well, yes, but I think my point was more along the lines of 'I refuse to believe that Elves would be so thoughtless as to have it off with some grubby Ranger'. Because who wants to be 'married' to a grubby Ranger? - Trojie. (PS; that was rhetorical, you can all put your hands down NOW before you embarrass yourselves -_-)
 * Heh. Yeah, I was thinking knives. I shan't comment on the rest. Glass

And I've seen one instance where molasses was used as lube. It was an Elured/Elurin fic.
 * Uh...no.Glass

I did put in "egg white" here, but was informed by several Fanficrants users that in fact this can work. It still doesn't sound particularly appealing, but there you go. Laburnum
 * Well, given it's a protein (albumen) that the body makes already and thus is not likely to be harmful, and it *is* slippery, I'd agree with them, but ... agreed. Waiting for your lover to quickly seperate an egg before you have it off is probably the least likely thing ever to qualify as foreplay. Trojie
 * Yeah. I just had horrible visions of vigorous action causing it to turn into meringue mix. And someone commented saying that eggs cook at a very low temperature, so the inside of the human body plus friction may possibly ... ew. Laburnum
 * A very good point. In view of this, I *would* add it to the list. It's dubious. Yes, technically, supposedly, it can work. The dubious part comes from the fact that, really, can anyone here actually see anyone ever being THAT DESPERATE? Or having eggs handy in the bedroom? I mean, if it comes to it, to get eggs, they'd have to run down to the kitchen, and then why not just grab the cooking oil? I think the only setting that eggs being the Most Handy Source of Lubricant is likely in is if Our Heroes are having it off in a henhouse. O.o - Trojie
 * In the one I saw, it was out in the woods, and they climbed a tree to get to a bird's nest to get the eggs. By that point I think I'd have just given it up as far too much effort and waited till I got home. Laburnum
 * Very much agreed. A brief intermission in the foreplay while Our Hero climbs a tree to pilfer a blackbird's egg would be a bit much for the suspended disbelief (or the desire to be gettin' it on) to take. - Trojie
 * If they're really that desperate, why not just do, y'know, something that doesn't require lube? It's not like it's Tab A in Slot B or nothing ... I did come up with a disturbing idea once; canon which includes plants which sound as if they should be real but aren't, which do such interestingly unlikely things as producing a milk substitute good enough to make cheese. If writing in this canon, could one add in a plant which produces a workable grease simply by squeezing, with no processing required, so our heroes could just grab a handful of leaves if they found themselves in need? My theory is the fans would roll their eyes and the creator would be horrified if he found out, but technically it'd be okay to do it. Laburnum
 * GENIUS. It *would* work in Mossflower, it so would. They have DEM plants all over the glaurunging place. Of course, we can never let the badslashers *know* this, and of course it would have to be a common plant because 'hang on dearest heart, before we can consummate our passionate and all-consuming love, I must search out the fabled Greasewort! And we hath not much time, for lo! The evil ferrets of the Rottentooth Horde draw near! And we must maintain an acceptable level of sexual tension for this to be reviewed by our author's AFF.net readers!' would be wrong... yes. It would be wrong, and I have just written it ... Gah. This is why I don't stay up til midnight doing PPC-things - Trojie
 * Eurgh. Yes. It's still better than nothing ... Y'know, I'm tempted to do that fic and have the plant in question bear an unfortunate resemblance to poison ivy, thus obliging at least one of the poor critters to undergo a very awkward explanation in the infirmary, because I have a sick sense of humour. And we've probably just guaranteed that some day someone's going to write about some characters using hotroot soup as lubricant. (The only thing which could have made "Martin's First Time" any more WTF-ish short of the unicorn actually showing up?) Laburnum
 * Oh...powers... Hotroot soup?! SPICY stuff there? I cringe.Glass
 * Yerss indeedy. And one day, someone will probably write it, thanks to Murphy's Law. Though I must admit hotroot soup is better than molten iron or glue. (I haven't seen those personally, but I've heard rumours and I honestly wouldn't put it past the badficcers.) The Yiff 101 course at the OFUR may include a practical which involves applying various substances to the inside of your own nostril; "If it burns there, it'll burn elsewhere." Laburnum
 * Oh, yes, definitely. Sweet seasons. -_- Greyscale would be happy to provide a talk on human male/male sex, if you would be interested in a student guest lecture. They certainly seem to have little concept of those mechanics either. Glass
 * Reminds me, I need to find an excuse to have either lizardboy or Asmodeus utter a sentence I found in a webcomic; "What? Is something wrong with one of my penises?" Reptiles are fun. Laburnum
 * (Heh, I've read that.) Oh, yes, definitely! Greyscale would be perfectly happy to be used as a demo model. He had no problem showing off to the lads unfortunate enough to be in the lav when he found out himself.Glass
 * WIN! GO snakes and their hemipenes! He could of course be demonstrating the Important Lesson that animals do NOT have human-type genitalia, for the most part. I can't imagine Asmodeus being shy enough to refuse being a demonstrator. - Trojie
 * Also need to demonstrate dental structure in that one - i.e. "do not put parts of your body into the mouth of a creature who can chew through solid wood and bone unless you are REALLY SURE you trust them not to suffer a jaw spasm at an inappropriate time" ... Laburnum
 * SNORT. Okay, now I really wanna be present at this lesson, just so I can see all the badficcers go 'EEK!'- Trojie
 * Absolutely. Teacher picks on someone who's not paying attention; "Come up here and chew through this stick. That's good. Now, would anyone like to come up here and stick your fingers in his mouth? No? Then WHY THE HELL do you think we're stupid enough to put more important parts in there?!" (I'm still WTFing at the bit in TS when Cluny does just that to Redtooth and announces that if he bites he will, and I quote, "still" kill him. Is it just me or does that, at that point, translate into "please bite me now because I am stupid"?) Laburnum
 * No, it's not just you. That's what it sounds like to me. - Trojie
 * Yeah, TS had that a couple of times. Threatening someone while in the process of raping them and/or injuring them in such a manner that they'd bleed to death if the author had any grasp of anatomy (usually the two points being the same) is kind of pointless. What more can you do to them? Particularly the one with Armel and the one with Pikkle Ffolger - you do not do that to Plucky Cute Heroes/Heroines, or it'll come back to bite you in worse places than your ass (though they wouldn't use that word because they're A) animals, B) British). Laburnum
 * nodnod Yes. Many times yes. I shudder at the thought. Glass
 * If you want extra instructors on that course you can gank Trojie as well, actually. She's all about the instructive lectures with diagrams -Trojie
 * Very probably. If you do write it, I'll beta if you want. I could use a chuckle at the Infirmary Scene :) Trojie
 * I'd try, but I'm not sure I want to break myself into pr0n writing with fanfic for a kids' book series, particularly since I've seen in great detail precisely how easy it is to get it hideously wrong. Slashing up kids' books doesn't bother me, but porn for them does, probably because splooge is not cute. Doesn't stop my endless supply of penis jokes about them, though, but they just make it so very easy sometimes ... Maybe when I've had some practice with original fiction or something. Though I did say at one point I could do porn in the fandom just to prove it doesn't have to be appallingly bad, and to guard against certain ficcers finding me and breaking Ebert's Law ("when you tell someone to try their hand at something before criticising your efforts, you have violated Ebert's Law and lost the argument", according to Pottersues). And I suppose the Lube Tree is better than me using the fandom to make gags about that Darwin Award entry involving the gerbil. Laburnum
 * rofl. Lube Tree. Aw now you have to write it. You've named it. You don't have to get into the specifics, just the euphemisms and things :P That'll make it both entertaining and not brain-breaky, not that I think you'd write something brain-breaky. -Trojie
 * Hee. Maybe I will. Probably should try one with a canon het pairing first to ease myself in and practice a bit ... as long as they don't end up having underage unmarried sex in a very public area of what is, strictly speaking, holy ground, in tune to the dying screams of an enemy having something physically impossible done to him, I think I could manage it. (Yes, I'm still freaked out by that one.) Laburnum
 * That's understandable. I'm still a little WTF about several of the things I've sporked, or am about to spork. The one where Severus Snape is given a violent sex change by Lucius Malfoy as punishment for being 'a whore' (I think that's supposed to be a clever ref to how he is a spy for Dumbledore) and then falls in love with Remus Lupin is in that category ... -Trojie
 * ...yes, that's a definite WTF, that is. I am so glad I'm not a Badslash Agent. Glass
 * Oh, it's a fun beat. I enjoy it a lot. I'd rather be a Bad Slasher than an Assassin. But we do get a fair amount of WTFery. -Trojie
 * Fair enough. It wouldn't be nearly as much fun if we all did the same job, hey? Glass

I once saw a yaoi fic somewhere that involved melted cheese as lube. And as cheese cools and solidifies over time and as things become...sticky...sex becomes something only /b/ could stand without wincing in sympathy.Fichunter
 * Cheese is a new one on me. No doubt I'll see it used sooner or later in a fic. - Trojie
 * Well, even to begin with, melted cheese is hot! Scalding is a bad thing. Glass
 * Hot things on mucous membranes = bad. This is the official opinion of the DBS. Also chemical-burny things, abrasive things and extra-cold things. -Trojie
 * whimper No. Very much no. Glass
 * Interestingly though, most of the dubious lubes on the page are either too hot, too cold, too caustic, too abrasive, or not lubricate-y enough to work. So obviously the knowledge of the requirements of mucous membranes is not widespread in fandom. I'm thinking leaflet drop. Who's with me? -Trojie, only slightly joking
 * I agree. It's necessary and would prove amusing, I think. Glass
 * I'll join! Anyone who doesn't get why molten iron is a stupid idea for a personal lubricant deserves to test it! (Unless that one was in the Transformers fandom or something ...) Laburnum
 * Score, reinforcements. But I think molten iron is to Transformers what boiling oil would be to humans ... still pukka Dubious Lube. *Starts planning the leaflets* I think the first place to dump them will be Potterverse and Narnia - I see more examples of dubious from there than anywhere else. What do you think? -Trojie
 * Pirates of the Caribbean would be another possible. That's the one where I saw them using mango pulp. Owch. And LoTR could possibly do with a dose - it was Frodo and Sam who did the "we have no lube, so instead of waiting till we get home and getting out the cooking oil, we'll go through the whole stupid rigmarole of finding a nest, climbing the tree, and separating an egg, by which point the mood should have utterly died" routine. Usually I tend to see the characters just plain not using lube, so I don't know who else would benefit. I've formed a personal rule for judging lube in fics, since I have no intention of gaining actual experience with any of these substances and I've seen people claim that they can handle not using it in RL (no idea how true it is, but a few people say it); 1) if it was me I would rather have it and find out it was unnecessary than not have it and find out it was necessary, 2) if it was me I would rather have no lube than an obviously stupid one. Actually I think we should also start up a rally for More Sex Acts Which Require No Lube in fic - would solve a lot of arguments, and besides it's less messy. Laburnum
 * Basically we need to form the Frottage League - You Don't Need Penetration To Have Fun! Maybe you and I should start up a pan-fandom Sex Ed class :) -Trojie
 * Why do I have visions of my assassins helping Trojie to hand out leaflets for this League? And S&S pick up a leaflet, look at each other ... "Is it my turn to stop them from carrying out the crazy idea this time?" "Well, this one isn't resulting in anyone being attacked by talking trees, so maybe we should let it go ..." Laburnum
 * Heh. I would have thought that S&S would be at least quietly supportive of something that aims to reduce the frequency of the Dubious Lube charge...but maybe the idea is a little mad. Although the idea of touring the OFUs as a travelling sex ed show entertains me. -Trojie
 * True, but they've figured out that anything L&F do is likely to either backfire in a horribly embarrassing or painful manner, or just have horribly embarrassing or painful consequences as a matter of course. See the Nighthunt recruitment fiasco and the Redneck Trees Incident. And I dread to think what'll happen when Drake gets hold of the pamphlets. Poor sweet utterly-naive foxboy, lord knows how he'll react to being asked to join ... possibly assume they mean "in real life", offer to test it with a passerby, and get Malletspaced. Laburnum
 * Poor Drake. What I dread more is Luxury showing up and going 'I'll join! Where's the orgy?' - Trojie
 * Well, the one could solve the other - Drake probably wouldn't object to being a Lux-distracting method. But S&S would object on his behalf because they don't approve of taking advantage of his naivety. (Besides, since Drake's biologically twenty-something, was only "born" a year ago, and mentally wavers between twenty-something and twelve, I have no idea if he counts as being capable of consent ...) Laburnum
 * Technically I would say he probably doesn't, but then, if he really wants to do something, it's probably going to be hard to stop him ... likewise if he really didn't want to do it, Lux would eventually back off. I hope. - Trojie
 * His author tells me Drake isn't interested in initiating the contact for himself unless it's vulpine breeding season, but if he thinks someone else wants to do it, he offers because he thinks he's being helpful. As I'm sure you can guess, this worldview makes it very hard to explain to him that he shouldn't. Though his work partner Naomi beats the hell out of people who try to take advantage of him and will likely give him a very simple Do Not Do This lecture at knifepoint at some point, so he's probably safe. Laburnum
 * Aw, overprotective partners are cute. - Trojie

The poem should be in the main article. It's great. Glass
 * Aw, thank you *blush* - Trojie

Um...I just read a story where one of the characters used barbecue sauce as a...stimulating lubricant (for use with a sex toy, before intercourse wherein they used normal lube). I'm thinking that was not a realistic/good idea, but I'm not positive.AGlass 07:19, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * From a quick googling of recipes for home-made barbeque sauce, it involves tomatoes (acidic), vinegar (very acidic), onions (stick a piece of onion up your nose and tell me what you think) and from then on it gets creative with any of the following; chilis, mustard, red wine, cajun spice, and bourbon. I'm not sure what goes into commercially made barbeque sauce but I'm 90% certain it at least contains tomato, onion and vinegar. If you like burning during sex, sure. Go ahead. It won't kill you, though I doubt it'd be very pleasant. If you are just looking for something that'll make stuff slippery, look elsewhere. As for 'stimulating', well, chili's very stimulating. I wouldn't have thought it was a turn-on though. Other thing is, sauce dries. I'd put it on the list, Glass. It might be usable, but it sure as heck sounds dubious to me.Agenttrojie 10:25, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That was my thought, thanks... It was the wee hours when I read it, though, so I wanted a second opinion. AGlass 22:48, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay...sand? WTF!? That's like using tiny glass shards! Gyeee... AGlass 08:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where the sand entry is from, but, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised. *longsuffering sigh* The fanbrats really, really don't think. And yes, depending on the kind of sand, it's *exactly* like tiny glass shards ... because silica is tiny glass shards :P /end geology nerd. Agenttrojie 20:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)